Hey Julia Woods
Join me, Julia Woods, a couples coach and wife of over 3 decades, as I share some of my client's stories and my own so that you can be encouraged, inspired, and gain new results in your marriage.
Hey Julia Woods
From Adversaries to Advocates
Nathan and Michaela share how a simple morning ritual and a second chair became the unlikely catalyst that's reshaping their marriage. By choosing curiosity over being right and speaking fears early instead of silently spiraling, they built a daily rhythm of connection that is rebuilding trust and intimacy. This episode unpacks the small, intentional choices any couple can use to move from seeing each other as adversaries to truly advocating for one another.
Please let us know in the comments what you're taking away from this episode
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Welcome to Hey Julia Woods Podcast. I'm your host, Julia Woods, founder of Beautiful Outcome, a coaching company focused on helping couples learn to see and understand each other, even in the most difficult conversations. On my podcast, I will share with you the real and raw of the messiness and amazingness of marriage. I'll share with you aspects of my relationship and the couples I coach in a way that you can see yourself and find the tools that you need to build the marriage you long for. Thank you for joining me. And I am so eager to jump into this interview with some of my very favorite people, Nathan and Michaela. They live in Utah, and Nathan refers to his all their grandchildren as his grand gigglers, which they have very many of them. They have four adult children. Michaela has just recently retired from her very, very busy career. And Nathan is still continuing his journey as an artist and a ski instructor in Utah. And so without any further ado, welcome Nathan and Michaela.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. We're so happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Anything you want to correct about my uh introduction? Did I get all that right?
SPEAKER_00:You got it right. I have just recently retired as a ski instructor. So now no one, no one can book me ever again.
SPEAKER_01:Your first ski season coming up without being a ski instructor. Wow, we could talk on that for a while.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Well, I am so excited about the results that Nathan and Michaela are getting. Nathan and Michaela, I got the privilege of coaching them um several years back for about two years, and I loved every call with them. And I've watched them grow. They have been on the um, they have been coming to Breakthrough for four years, four years now, and they're headed for their fifth next year. Um, and so what we're gonna focus on today is what's happening for them at Breakthrough. And we're gonna really use this year. This last year, they just came in July. We'll use that as the biggest um year that we're looking at as to what's been happening this year. So the results you've gotten since July, we are recording this at the end of October. So it's been four months that you have been applying what you're learning and what you took out of that training. And for you, Michaela, you have experienced a thousand, or no, sorry, a hundred percent increase in having a joined morning ritual with Nathan. And we're gonna talk more about that. And Nathan, you have experienced a 50% increase in actually being proactive in having the conversations ahead of time with Michaela rather than being reactive because you weren't willing to talk about it before it got obvious you had to talk about it. So let's jump in. Let's talk about what um, like Michaela, will you start with? Well, either of you can start, but share with me like what does this mean? What does this specifically look like in your day-to-day life? These new results that you're getting. Before we dive deeper into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something super exciting. It's a game changer, really. To have the relationship you long for, you must take responsibility for yourself and who you are being moment by moment. It's not about what your spouse needs to change, it's about you taking control of the only thing you can control, which is you. That's the truth that nobody's talking about when they talk about marriage. But I am inside the marriage growth community where I will help you take responsibility for your ability to lead conversations with your spouse to love and connection, so you can have the marriage you dreamed of when you first fell in love. At the very first link in the show notes, you can grab my marriage growth community, and that's really going to help. I know that because it's based on the same principles I've used to coach this couple and hundreds of other couples to marriage success over the last nine years. So grab marriage growth community at the top of the show notes. Okay, back to the show.
SPEAKER_04:Well, maybe I'll start. Um, before breakthrough, we were hoping to have more conversation, uh, more opportunity to talk together, but I have in my for that morning ritual in the room that I would study and have my own ritual of studying and thinking deeply. I I didn't have a second chair or room for Nathan, physically, not even the room for Nathan. After breakthrough, I I decided, well, I am not making room for Nathan to actually have this morning ritual conversation, deeper connection on a daily basis. And so I added, I rearranged the room. So there's two chairs. And now every morning, 6 a.m., we committed and we are meeting in this room. We both have a chair to sit, and conversations are happening. It's a huge change for us to be able to have that daily connection in the morning with trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's so powerful that it's the simplest thing, right? Like I put myself in that situation and I think about the times I've sat in self-pity and sat in a victim mindset of, you know, Jeff just doesn't ever want to spend time with me. Why would, why doesn't he just, you know, I'm sitting here every morning. He could join me, right? And yet when you step back and you're like, wait, I don't even have a place he could sit. So why would he join me? Right. It's like a shift to a responsibility mindset of I want this, but do I really want it? I'm not even holding a place for him to be a part of it. I love that. It's the simplest and yet most profound experience. So, Michaela, like what brought you to recognize that you just didn't even have a chair?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's it's that very thing that you were saying that I recognized that breakthrough, that what do what do I really want? And what are my actions saying that I want? You know, so so I wasn't even aware that that I actually, I guess maybe I didn't really want it because I didn't make room for him. And so I think that's what I the realization that what am I building in my life, where am I going to, um, shows up in my actions. I have to look at myself, what am I doing on a daily basis? Because that is, I might think I want Nathan to join me, but my actions showed me, well, I didn't make room for him. So I want to sit in my self-pity and oh, he doesn't want to join me because then I'm right about it, and I like to be right about myself.
SPEAKER_01:We do love to be right, don't we? So you rearranged the room and you made room. Did he just automatically appear in the chair? Or what what else? Was there other actions that you realized you weren't taking?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I didn't actually speak it and invite him. You know, so it I needed to make the invitations. I needed to say, Nathan, I really would love to have a morning ritual together. And and to for me to go to him and say, Nathan, he noticed that I had changed the room up, that there's a second chair. And he said, Oh, this is really nice, you know, and he sat down. And then we had we were able to have that discussion and say, hey, you know, let's have a morning ritual and study together. You know how I would study all by myself? I really kind of think I'd like you to join me. And would you be willing to do that? And then we just needed to find an actual time, make the commitment that you would sit in a chair by 6 a.m. And so we are. I love it. But it took that um communication about, and it took a little bit of admitting that I've kind of it took that humility, I guess, for me to make that step to make room, and then to ask him to join me, because it meant I I wanted him. And sometimes it's hard to express that you want your partner if you don't communicate well.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. And I love that you rearrange the room first. Like you didn't go to him and say, Hey, I have this dream, would you join me? And he says yes, and it's like, okay, now I'll risk and I'll put the chair there. Instead, you're like, I'm gonna risk. And there may be, I may need to look at an empty chair every morning because he may not accept my invitation. But you actually created the space first and then took the risk to say, would you be willing to join me? Yeah, I guess I went after that movie.
SPEAKER_04:If you build it, they will come. Yes, my thought was my thought.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. All right. So, Nathan, can you tell us more about this experience of tell us more about what does it mean to be proactive, having proactive conversations, 50% more than in the past you were having reactive conversations? So tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00:Wokidoki, um, so in the past, I think that I was allowing my hesitation to expose myself to criticism or rejection or anger or whatever. It's not it's not like we were always like at each other's throats. That was never the case. But it was, but you know, no, no one likes to feel like they're on the hot end of a stick. And so I think I just tried to avoid the stick. Um the the big shift that's that's happened, um, you know, as we've gone through breakthrough and especially this last year, is I think my my my desire is not it's not being afraid of anything, but my desire to connect and to actually listen and to be heard and to bring up to bring up subjects that you know we hadn't even discussed yet. So like I said, it's not always about recycling old material. It's as you know, as as I'm getting older now, I'm discovering things that I'm I'm thinking about, and I want to discuss them with Michaela because she's super smart. And like she said, we have this this shift where we're saying rather than being being on my back, it's like I have your back. Um and so that's that's making it a lot easier for me at this point to um to kind of initiate. Still not really good at, I'm getting there, but there's been an improvement. But to initiate a conversation about something that in the past I might have been hesitant to because I was afraid of what might happen, you know. And I think one of the really big things, Julia, that's um becoming more and more and more clear to me is that my sweet and wonderful wife is never capital N and all capital rest of the letters. She's never my she's never my adversary. And um she is my advocate. And if I bring something that is broken, bleeding, or bruised, and it's me or something else to her, that the response will be, well, let's let's take care of this rather than oh, what a what a mess this is. Or you are, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Nathan, that's huge because what you're describing is the very opposite of behavior modification. You're describing belief rewriting. You're rewriting beliefs. You're you're talking about I'm shifting from I don't want her on my back to she has my back. I I don't want to bring this to my adversary. You're shifting to I want to bring this to the one who advocates for me.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Those are deep, deep, deep core beliefs that often we don't even realize we carry into our relationship. And so has that been intentional? Have you intentionally noticed those beliefs and shift, re been working to rewrite them? Or what do you think has brought that about?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, part of it is getting older and realizing I'm not gonna live uh forever. And it's you know, part of just getting thoughtful about what I really, really, really want in life. Um I would say that you know, Mikhail and I have both been really busy with professions all of our lives, and so that's something that I think that we inadvertently let water water the relationship down a bit in terms of what we could have done. So the intentionality now of saying so, I really want to connect, I really want to be able to go to her with anything, with with something that is um a source of fear or frustration for me. I think I suffer from the masculinity uh default of I have to be strong, I have to be, you know, able, and I kind of miss the whole point that the reason why there was um an Adam and an Eve is because one wouldn't have worked really well. So it's that it's that aspect now. And I think that, you know, like Michaela said, she likes to be right. I like to be right. I think we all like to be right. And one of the big shifts, Julia, that has been part of the last several years of my life, both because of breakthrough and because of my professional work, is getting to a place where in a conversation, I'm really thinking about more um what I don't know as opposed to what I do know. And so rather than thinking about, so this is how I'm right in my mind, I'm I'm trying to be able to connect with Michaela and others by having the the leading thought of what is it I don't know. And so that's that's a huge shift.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, which is a major transformational distinction, right? Because it goes along with being right. We like to focus on what we think we know. We don't want, it's uncomfortable to listen for what we don't know, we don't know, because that's going to be new information. And as our brain is working to conserve energy, it's like, I don't want new information. I just want to stay in what I think I already know. But then it blocks connection because connection comes out of creativity, it comes out of curiosity, it comes out of growth and learning something new. And so it is a powerful thing to just aim. I know we were talking pre-interview, and Michaela, you were discussing about what your new aim is. Um, and just for those that are listening, like we're always aiming at something. And we often just don't realize what we're aiming at. But what I hear you describing, um, Nathan, is that you're really aiming at getting to know what you don't know about another person or about um how they see the world or what they feel that you didn't realize they felt. Like, is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and I think one of the really big breakthroughs as well is to write is to realize that in doing that, I can I can create greater understanding, at least within myself, but that does not mean I have to create greater agreement. That's I think right. So part of I think part of the the joy of the relationship is recognizing that we are different. I mean, we have we've got really different brains. Um, and that's good. And and in that in that conversation, that willingness to step into the unknown and kind of explore, you know, what have I not thought of or what do I not know? And then to hear Michaela's point of view, I still can I can still have my point of view that I had previously. It isn't like I have to surrender it if I think that's what you know, that's the shoe that fits.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But in but in terms of really kind of getting to a place where, like again, sitting down at six in the morning, to be honest, we get there a little bit after that. We kind of roll there slowly out of bed and get there. But but when we get to that place where we can start having conversations, I'm not really worried about having to get agreement. Although I think that's part of the I'm right and I want to be right. But to be able to simply understand a different point of view, and that that changes everything. You know, it knocks a number of walls down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So let's come back to this proactive versus reactive. So, Kit, do you have an example of a proactive conversation that you recently had that in the past you wouldn't have had and it just would have been something you reacted to?
SPEAKER_00:Well, last night, last night was I I brought up the fact that I am noticing that I'm getting a little bit um cognitively impaired. I don't know if that's age, I don't know if that's my ADHD, I don't know what it is, but it's something I thought, okay, in in times past, I would have simply let this conversation run in my mind. You know, worries about my memory. I mean, my memory has always been like a sieve. But um but I I decided I need I need to talk to Michaela about this. I mean, not just because she's a nurse, she's medically brilliant, but also because she's my spouse and she has to deal with she's got to deal with my with what I do. Um and so that was a conversation we got to start exploring now different options and you know, what do you want to do with this and what can what can we do? And the nice thing is right now we're kind of working together on identifying things that are part of my brain. And Michaela and I are working on a how we do this together, not just you know, my plan for it. And that's I gotta be honest, that's really something I love you, my dear, about is your will your willingness to help to help me. Um that's that having my back, as opposed to complaining about how can you forgot that thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah, we were actually able to come up with uh a solution. It's proven that physical exercise helps your mental capacities. Um so you know, Monda Gensti Friday is gonna join me going to the gym, uh, you know, together in the morning. So after we have our morning start together in the the ritual, then we're extending that to go and we're gonna go to the gym afterwards to help with that to kind of get the blood pumping and circulation. So yeah, it has so many other good benefits.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. So just for the men listening, and I don't think this is specific to men, I only say that because Nathan, I think you will communicate in a way that it that will connect with men in a way that I I won't, you know. And so when I sit and I think about that, from my perspective, I think like, wow, I would when I have something like that come up, that I'm like, oh no, like this isn't good. This is this is gonna, I don't want this to be happening, right? And I sit in it alone, trying to, in my mind, what I would be doing is trying to cover it up, trying to be like, okay, hope they didn't see that. Hope you didn't see that, you know. Oh, there's that thing again that I'm worried about and I'm afraid of. There's a problem. No, there's no problem. Uh, let me, you know, that's how I would be sitting in it alone. But to be proactive and bring it up, bring it into the light and partner. Well, that's a totally different thing. Now I can actually have a sounding board. I can share what I noticed today that maybe it's not at to the level I thought that it was, or, you know, hey, this happened. What do you think about this? Like talk about intimacy, talk about lonely, you know, you said you said earlier, I long to connect, or I want to have connection. Like, in your words, can you describe like the difference of what a reactive conversation would, you know, how it would have been in the reactive versus how it is in the proactive from a place of what you feel internally?
SPEAKER_00:All right. I I would I would say, Julia, that uh in the first place, there's the the non-active, even before the reactive. And so that's that just sitting in sitting in silence and not really, not really letting anything out. And that's obviously, I think, um probably physically as well as emotionally and spiritually, it's a cancerous condition. Um, the re the reactive was again, when that would happen, that was typically because um, like if Michaela or anyone else from the outside would make some comment about something that, you know, we'll just say could be better. Um there's that that that avoidance of of oh no, you know, I'm not I'm not doing it right, or I'm a screw up, or whatever. The the proactive part, I think, is is so freeing and it is so it is so aligned with everything that's right in the universe that simply says anything that's really important you can't do by yourself. And in terms of, you know, you know, for Michaela and me, we are learning and we are progressing at recognizing, I think, the the most wonderful things we've been able to create together, other than children, um we've kind of hit that point where we're listening to one another. And and in my case, recognizing, oh, I I first started out on this thing as a solo project, and that was a mistake. And doing it together is really wonderful because it's always turned out better than if it's just, you know, just me doing it. So, so in that sense, the the proactive aspect of it of not being afraid of being criticized or not being afraid of the fact that, yeah, I did do something wrong, or yeah, I discovered that the boat is leaking, you know, or whatever it might be. That at that point that I have an advocate and a partner who is invested and committed in making things wonderful, as opposed to making the hole in the book bigger. That's a that's a huge thing.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. And remind the listeners, how long have you guys been married? Remind me and the listeners, how long have you guys been married?
SPEAKER_00:Do you know?
SPEAKER_04:Um, 48 or 48 years, 40, 49.
SPEAKER_00:She she's ahead of the curve here, but so our oldest son, Jacob, is 40. Oh six, that's right. So 47. We're we're we're coming up on 48.
SPEAKER_04:48.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but we're close. It's easy to remember because Jacob was born in 1980, and so okay, well, whatever he is right now, you know. So yeah, we're coming up on it. 40 48.
SPEAKER_01:48 years. And one of the things that I I love, I just love being around you guys because um, you know, I don't have the experience of having um I don't know an older couple that in my life, my grandparents, my parents, that um had a happy marriage, that um even made it to 48 years. And so the and the way that the two of you love each other, like I would if people could see this, they're listening, but if they could see just the way you guys look at each other, it is just so beautiful to me. And so um, and to hear another thing that really inspires me about the two of you is that you've been married going on 48 years, and every year the two of you show up at breakthrough, like you're newlyweds, like we gotta learn this stuff. We gotta, we, we gotta go deeper, we gotta connect because there is more on the table that we want to have in our relationship.
SPEAKER_04:And I I just I'm just so grateful and so grateful that the listeners get to well, that gratitude comes from this way towards you and the opportunities that you've given us uh through discovering what joy can be in a relationship and the depth of a relationship variations, you know, that as you step deeper, the joy becomes deeper.
SPEAKER_03:And also sometimes the discomfort becomes deeper as you're trying as you're working through things that have been nodded for a long time.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I think to have that opportunity to for a whole weekend to go not just to visit about and about it for an hour or two, but for a whole weekend to sit in some of the things that you've been working on and they're just not wanting to resolve, and hearing other people's input and your input, and then your own inspiration that comes from being really present, which is what happens in the breakthrough, that is a game changer for me.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah, there's a lot of gratitude in that that I carry and it brings joy.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that and that's an emotional response from Mikhail. I just have to express that I'm really bitter, Julia, that you weren't doing this 47 years ago.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When we started out. But but again, you know, I think we're we're both at a point right now where we're discovering all sorts of things that currently are available that are so wonderful. They're resources that weren't there five years or 10 years ago. You know, like some people had to be born and then write their book before we could read it. So um it's like Michaela said, one thing I'm I'm just really grateful for is this ability for us to go there together to the breakthroughs or just have these conversations with one another. And around other people who are who are trying, who are trying to find their footing and to both share the the tears and the laughter and recognize this is just a human condition. And so within our own marriage right now, we've gone through a lot. I mean, we've we've gone through all sorts of hard stuff. And it's just the realization that um that through it all, it's been a matter of doing it together, saying, you know, like bring it on. It's not gonna be easy, but it's gonna be something that we can have some fun with. And if not fun with, it's something that we can we can um you know get through or get past together.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's been great. Still is great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think about um this is a rare opportunity. I just would love to hear what each of you, which I think I was kind of hearing in what you were saying, Nathan. I want to make it a little bit more specific. So if you were, as you sit here going on to 48 years, um, and you look over the span of your marriage, and I know I've gotten the opportunity to walk with you guys as you face some really hard things and worked with each other in some very you guys are very different from each other in in a lot of ways. And yet I've watched you find a way to marry your differences of personality, of the way you think, um, all of these things. But as you look over the 48 years, what would you go back and tell yourself? The first the version of yourself that was living in that newlywed season, what would you tell yourself is the most important thing um to focus on in your marriage?
SPEAKER_00:So in my case, it would be To tell myself, hey dude, do not be afraid to discuss anything with Michaela. Do not be afraid.
SPEAKER_04:And for me it would be to be curious and really listen and get to know the other person and and and be present in the present with your with your partner, you know, with Nathan. To not carry on past things, cannot let past things come to the present, you know, like say, you know, I I can't trust you because in the past you've done this, this, and that, you know, um, to let go of some of that and to just get to know the person now and actually listen. Listen to them and get beat with curiosity rather than making up my own defenses or it in my mind as I'm listening to what he's saying. Not really listening, you know, then yes, that not really listening.
SPEAKER_01:I'm listening. No, I'm not really listening because uh one of the things we talked a lot about this breakthrough um as a whole was that we listen for what we want to hear. We listen for um those limiting beliefs, those beliefs that she's my adversary, or he isn't trustworthy, or you know, she doesn't have my back. She's always on my back, right? Like that's what we're listening for. Those beliefs are hidden in there. We gained them through childhood, and we don't know we come into our marriage listening for those things and actually recreating the same suffering, um, the same loneliness, the same self-pity, the same victim experience that we observed growing up.
SPEAKER_00:I just I'm curious, I'm thinking, Julia, that um in in my or our um inclination to to use being right as sort of a defense mechanism against being exposed or you're damaged or hurt or whatever. I'm just seeing, and this I would tell myself this, you know, in the past, it's a hey, being right is not as valuable as being connected. And I think like right now, that's really the thing we're striving for is just to connect with with each other and with our children and grandchildren in a in a deeper, more more meaningful way. And that connection again doesn't have to mean total agreement. I can I think I think I could connect with anyone, even if I think that you know that they're nuts. But there's a there's an element of love and compassion and respect and connection that is that is so precious. And the the deceptiveness of taking a hard line on being right, either as a matter of personal pride, and I think more often than not as a matter of fear. You know, it's like yeah, it's like the the dog viciously defending its rotten piece of meat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When it could have when it could have like fresh roadkill instead.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we we do protect those lies, right? Like, um, if I believe I'm not worthy of love, then I'm gonna work to be right in every conversation. Like with Jeff, the way that showed up is I needed to show him the right way to do things because subconsciously I believed I wasn't worthy of love. So I was trying to earn love by being, by knowing what to do, by knowing the right thing to do, then somehow he's gonna magically think I'm worthy of love and want to love me. But the opposite, what I was doing was the opposite, right? I was actually pushing him away because I was never respecting or trusting or being curious or investigating how he saw it in a way that we could partner because it's really the connection that holds you together. It's not what one person knows or what one person doesn't know or how one person wants to do it versus the other person. It is literally feeling that this is my advocator. This is my person who's got my back, even when I miss it, they've got my back. And to live in a relationship where you both see it that way, that's really all that matters.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other thing is early on in life, in our marriage, I didn't realize that you could be intentional about your marriage of what you want. What do we want to create in our relationship? And I think that is something that I would tell myself be intentional. Now I know what I want, or we know what we want in our relationship, but I also know what I want. I want to be able to respond to Nathan when he is in his weakness, when he becomes defensive or when he becomes shut down, that I can respond to him, to that in a way, oh, he is in his weakness. How can I support him? How can I help him bridge back to getting out of his weakness what he really wants? And so that's might I have that clarity that that's what I'm aiming for. Then when I mess up, it's all about just redirecting. Start over, pause, start over, and redirect. And so that being intentional about your relationship can make so much, you save so much time of misery, and you can have way more joy that way together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I just want to expand on that a little bit, Michaela, where like what just just to talk this out so I can make sure that I'm grasping this and the listeners are grasping this, that in essence, that when we believe these lies, like I'm not enough, or I'm too much, or I'm not worthy of love, that in essence, while it looks big on the outside, we get defensive, we get angry, we shut down, right? We like start talking a mile a minute, it appears big on the outside, but in reality, we're very, it's us being really weak inside. And so even though you see the external big expression, what you're recognizing is, oh, he's in his weakness, he's listening to the lies, he's not living in his true identity, he's living in the false identity. So, how can I pause? How can I come alongside of him and offer a helping hand to say, how can I pull you through to truth? How can I pull you through to remember I'm with you, I'm for you, I'm I'm we've got each other's back. Is that what you're saying? Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you for clarifying. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I have now, a clarity that that's what I want. Yeah, it is. I have something to aim for.
SPEAKER_01:Incredible. I could keep talking to you guys for a long time, and I know we would just I there would be so much continued gold. And I know that we are out of time, and I'm just so grateful for you guys sharing your your love and your life with me as another sojourner in this world of being human beings, um, passionate about marriage. And thank you for letting the listeners have a glimpse into the beauty of what the two of you are growing in humility and curiosity and bravery with each other.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Julia. Thanks for having us. That's gonna do it for this episode of Hey Julia Woods. Now, I have a quick favor to ask of you if you've ever gotten any value from this podcast and you haven't already, please leave us a five-star rating and a quick review in the app that you're using to listen right now. It just takes a couple seconds, but it really goes a long way in helping us to share even more valuable marriage growth tips and interviews here. This episode shares the power of what can happen when a spouse takes responsibility for who they are being, one conversation at a time. And if you want the marriage that you long for, click that first link in the show notes, and this will take you straight to the resource that's going to solve that for you. I can't wait to connect with you inside my membership where you can get the support you need to grow the marriage you long for 24-7. All right, that's gonna do it for the show. My name is Julia Woods. I'll talk to you next time.