Hey Julia Woods
Join me, Julia Woods, a couples coach and wife of over 3 decades, as I share some of my client's stories and my own so that you can be encouraged, inspired, and gain new results in your marriage.
Hey Julia Woods
500% More Hope: A Story of Love, Healing, and Change
Jordan and Heather share their transformative marriage journey, revealing how they moved from feeling stuck in a mess to experiencing profound growth in just one year. With Heather's 500% increase in hope and Jordan's 50% increase in emotional intelligence, they demonstrate how meaningful change happens through personal responsibility.
• Jordan describes how childhood trauma from his mother's suicide attempts created abandonment fears he carried into marriage
• Heather reveals the deep loneliness she felt despite being married to someone she loved
• Both partners identified their conflict patterns—Jordan avoiding, Heather pursuing—that created disconnection
• Learning to recognize and name emotions changed how they handle disagreements
• Self-responsibility became key as they learned to meet their own needs instead of demanding the other fill their voids
• Staying present during uncomfortable feelings rather than avoiding them transformed their ability to resolve conflicts
• Small shifts in perspective created significant improvements in communication and connection
• Growth isn't linear—they embrace the process with grace for being human
If you're feeling stuck in your marriage, consider joining one of Julia's Breakthrough retreats where couples learn practical tools to see and understand each other, even in the most difficult conversations.
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Welcome to hey, julia Woods podcast. I'm your host, julia Woods, founder of Beautiful Outcome, a coaching company focused on helping couples learn to see and understand each other, even in the most difficult conversations. On my podcast, I will share with you the real and raw of the messiness and amazingness of marriage. I'll share with you aspects of my relationship and the couples I coach in a way that you can see yourself and find the tools that you need to build the marriage you long for. Welcome to another episode. I am so excited to introduce you to Jordan and Heather, and I just want to say every time I start this, I say I'm excited to introduce you to it, to this couple, and I truly am, because it is exciting to get to walk with couples who are willing to do the work and grow the marriages that they long for. And this week's couple is someone that I think you're going to relate to so much.
Speaker 1:This week, jordan and Heather are joining us. Jordan and Heather have been married for six years. They are a blended family, have four children aging from one to 14. Both of them have very busy careers and they began working with me about a year ago. They came to Breakthrough my marriage couple's retreat, and then we got to work together with some coaching, and they've come back to another Breakthrough and now they are here to share with you what has happened in just a year of them focusing on growing the marriage they long for. So welcome, jordan and Heather. Thank you guys for being here.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks, julia, great to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes. So let's just jump right in. You guys have done some work to think about the results that you're getting in your marriage in just one year, and they're extremely profound results that I am excited to share and talk about. So, heather, for you you said you have had a 500% increase in hope for your marriage, that what you long for is possible and that you have hope in that. And Jordan, you have recognized that you have had a 50% increase in emotional intelligence, had a 50% increase in emotional intelligence. So those are huge and I'd love for each of you to tell me a little bit more about what that means. Heather, what is the hope that you're experiencing? And Jordan, what is this emotional intelligence that you're experiencing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll start Sorry. So for me the hope is just that there's possibility for change and new results. You know it's it gets. You get into the day to day and everything starts to kind of look and feel the same. You get into your routines and your interactions become almost like a system. You know, and we just kind of day in and day out, how thin the veil really can be for change and the results that you can have in just a minor shift or perspective change.
Speaker 1:And this is huge for you, Heather, because I remember early on in coaching, our first few calls, this fear of hope came up a lot for you, Like we were talking about you know how things might be changing and it was really challenging for you to consider hope, hoping in the possibility that growth was happening. Can you talk more about, maybe, where what that fear sounded like for you, or what was the fear in hoping that Jordan was showing up in new ways and that the marriage you longed for might be unfolding?
Speaker 3:I think the fear for me was thinking it should have already happened. You know, there wasn't a lot of room for possibility in my mind, at least in that season, you know, and it felt very doomsday ish where we're just stuck with this mess now and getting a lot of the fear was thinking that it should have already happened and it has to look a certain way. I wasn't open to the possibility of maybe this is all a gift and maybe, you know, we can work with this and grow through these challenges grow through these challenges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to come back to that in a second. Jordan, can you talk with us about what this 50% growth in emotional intelligence is? What is? How would you describe emotional intelligence?
Speaker 2:I would describe it as being able to describe to. Was being able to describe to, let's say, another person exactly how you're feeling, because I would be able to think about it in my own head and know how I wanted to explain myself. But when it came to putting it in words during the conversation, I stumbled a lot and it's like my mind would go blank. I couldn't think of how I felt.
Speaker 2:It was kind of a weird spot to be in, you know, because I wanted to share how I was feeling, but I just want to come out of my mouth was feeling but I just want to come out of my mouth like and so, you know, going through your coaching and learning tools and just kind of learning the negatives and positive towards description of feelings really opened my eyes and made it a lot easier. You know, it allowed me to kind of go deeper within myself and start kind of putting pieces together and connecting dots that I haven't or wasn't able to for years and years. You know, I spent years just kind of holding things in and as a guy you kind of get stuck in that and you don't realize it and just kind of gets deeper and deeper and more confusing. To kind of explain, you know, especially to your spouse and um, I just got so much clarity, you know, know, after kind of discovering things throughout your coaching and in that I think it developed this emotional intelligence in me that I've been missing.
Speaker 1:And you know it's definitely helped a lot during conflicts.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, let's definitely helped a lot during conflict.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, let's talk about that. Let's step back a bit and talk. I love both of you. Heather, you described it as we're stuck with this mess now. So what was the mess that you were stuck in? In each of your terms and Jordan, you might term it differently, but when you think about what brought you to decide, you wanted to come to Breakthrough and start cleaning up the mess, if you will. What was the mess?
Speaker 3:For me, the mess was the, you know what I can now identify as loneliness and never feeling heard or seen. So that, to me, was the mess. I don't know if I could have articulated that was what it was back then, because I wasn't really sitting with what was at the root. I would have defined it by oh you know, he always avoids me, oh, he's shutting down. We can't ever seem to work through problems or conflict. You know, it's just too much for him. Or you know, but when I really started digging into things, I'm realizing just how lonely I was feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so Jordan, what would you? How would you describe the mess?
Speaker 2:Um, almost, yeah, I guess I would say feeling like we can never resolve um problems fully. So, you know, there would still be this lingering um either anger or bitterment towards one another, anger or bitterness towards one another, and it would just kind of build and build and then, you know, we'd end up having one big fight here and there, you know to where all the beans kind of got spilt out, and it wasn't done in a tactful way.
Speaker 2:It wasn't done. You know we would end up saying things that hurt one another and being really regretful in the end. Um, but yeah, we just couldn't kind of really connect and see eye to eye to get through our, our issues. And yeah, definitely, you know, I had feelings of just being really lonely in our marriage, you know kind of think kind of.
Speaker 2:It makes you think like how can you feel so lonely when you're married to someone so great and you know you committed yourself to and you guys have a family, but yet there's this like empty feeling of this loneliness and that type of thing, yeah, what have you discovered in that?
Speaker 1:like, how can you be living with someone that you love and you think is amazing, and you have these children together and yet you're lonely? Like, how has that happened in each of your minds?
Speaker 2:How did it happen? Yeah, for me personally. I think me abandoning myself led into abandoning Heather in so many ways.
Speaker 1:Great. Will you tell us more? What does that mean? To abandon yourself?
Speaker 2:Always. For me it was always pushing things into this deep hole and thinking somehow I can climb out of it myself, with thinking that somehow a certain amount of time that would go away. Instead, over you know periods of time, more and more things got thrown into that hole and it was hard to see the light and the hope and so, yeah, it just always felt overwhelming in my mind.
Speaker 1:And you say it, what is it? Like you say it, you went into a um, you were pushing things into a deep hole. It felt overwhelming like describe what that is. What were you pushing into the hole?
Speaker 2:um a lot of past issues, um things that I was still like hurt about in my past that I tried to ignore and ignore Feelings of being abandoned in ways that you know.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize until, like maybe this last year of doing coaching, that that was one of my feelings in that hole.
Speaker 2:You know, in that hurt was when this kind of trauma would happen.
Speaker 2:There was a huge feeling of abandonment in myself and I just ignored it and, yeah, that feeling would just get worse and it just bled into our marriage and you know I wasn't, I wasn't working on that part of that.
Speaker 2:You know, I was just ignoring my myself and you know I was just ignoring my myself and but I guess, as I started learning how I was feeling and this, this clarity I was having, you know it was like if I I'm not going to be the husband I want to be and fix the loneliness that I've kind of made my wife feel if I can't fix it within myself first. So this past year has been a huge change and growing opportunity in myself because I have taken a lot of time to kind of set in a lot of uncomfortableness and self-reflection. You know I've gone to personal therapy in the past year, which has helped in different ways in the past year, which has helped in different ways and, you know, for the longest time just going to see a therapist for some reason was like I felt defeated. You know, in a way Mm-hmm as yeah.
Speaker 1:So you described this feeling of being abandoned. What is?
Speaker 2:that feeling, um, I guess, without trying to, it's hard to explain without, just, I guess, really talking about it. You know, instead of kind of beating around the bush about what this, all this past, hurt and abandonment was. In my early 20s my mom struggled with mental health and and she tried over D and I lost count after five times.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:And so each time that would happen, it became harder. To you know, I would always push what that feeling that gave me. I mean it like made that wound deeper and deeper, and I would ignore it. You know, I wouldn't talk to anybody about it and it you know that that wound started before I met Heather and uh.
Speaker 2:And and I think that's what kind of you know throughout our marriage it got deeper and deeper. I would even find myself isolating myself just by simply not opening up to her and talking about it. You know that took so much away from.
Speaker 1:I feel like the both of us. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I hear you saying, jordan, is that when you were young, your mom was struggling with her own mental health and she kept trying to end her life. And, as a young boy, this is your mother. You're afraid that she's going to leave you. Yeah, and then you get married and what I hear you saying is, each time you and Heather had a conflict or you got hurt, you were that little boy that didn't have anybody to run to to talk to to help you, and you just feared that Heather was going to leave you, like your mother was trying to leave you. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:Right on the dot, yeah, right on the dot, yeah, yep. And I think you know, during conflict see, I had already grew this like avoid conflict, avoid conflict. You know like somehow it's going to get better. And you know, somehow it's going to get better. And you know, as I'm trying to like rewire my brain not to do that, and I feel like I've, in the past year, since you know we've started, even since we went to your first breakthrough, I've been way more aware of that than I ever have I've been able to like stop myself and you know, in a lot more conflict and kind of just come back and allow myself to want to be in that uncomfortableness and just fighting those feelings of, just because you know me and heather are having an argument she's not gonna abandon me, you know.
Speaker 2:But those feelings were still in the back of my head, you know, it's like they were almost engraved, uh, in a way yeah, yeah, they're hardwired in there yeah right, and that's the power is they don't go away.
Speaker 1:Um, we just get to face them and feel them and, from an adult perspective, decide is it true? Like right, as a kid, it was true that the person you needed wasn't available for you, and so that gets hardwired in and then, as an adult, it's sitting with ourself, caring, nurturing, being present with ourself. Like you said, you're either abandoning ourself or we're caring for ourself, and caring for ourself begins to look at. Is this true, that this person in front of me is going to do the same thing the people in the past did, or could something else be true? One of the things you said you keep talking about these uncomfortable feelings. Can you describe that? I think I know what you mean, but I think it would be helpful to hear you articulate. What are these uncomfortable feelings that come up for you when in conflict with Heather?
Speaker 2:It would be like this all of a sudden rush of fear and anxiety that would almost like, almost paralyze me to where I couldn't think right, you know um it would start like making me feel like you're not going to say the right thing, to to fix this moment, you know, like um, and then it would like almost increase my head during that, those moments of conflict where, yeah, I'd want to try to avoid it, avoid the confrontation. And so I think those were the two main like feelings.
Speaker 2:I would get during like conflict was just fear and just being super anxious and sense.
Speaker 1:You know yeah, and so what do you do? Those feelings still come up right every time. It comes up right. So what is? What do you do now? What is shifting?
Speaker 2:I think the shifting point was really. So your last breakthrough helped me out a lot. When we you have the big poster, you know, listed I don't know like 12 fillings and it had the negative and positive on them, and now that I'm more aware and alert of um okay, I'm starting to feel my body get kind of clammy or I'm just, like you know, feeling this off part about me.
Speaker 2:I'm like am I scared of something? Am I, you know? Am I feeling fear? Like, am I trying to avoid this conflict? And you know I'm not. I haven't I got it down to where I want it to yet, but I guess that is what I have to keep telling myself is, if I keep trying and keep taking steps forward, that you know, I'm going to find the parts of beauty in it. I'm going to find the parts of beauty in it. I'm going to keep growing, not just within myself, but allowing more opportunity with Heather to just get through different types of arguments or conflicts that we're having, arguments or conflicts that were happening. Yeah, because what I was doing before just was not work. You know it wasn't working.
Speaker 2:And I knew that I really needed to start, just even if it was a little change, you know. And then that's just what I really needed was to really start thinking deeper and going through the different feelings, to kind of put a label on it. You know, it's kind of hard when your mind's racing and you're not putting a label on like how you're really feeling yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to stay in this, heather. I'm going to come back to you, jordan. I really think there's a lot of value in what you're sharing. So earlier you said that you could never resolve problems fully, that this anger and bitterness towards each other was still lingering. Bitterness towards each other was still lingering. So you learned as a child by the results that you were in, that conflict was to be avoided. Because there was, it was not going to go anywhere. And now you're working to stay in the conflicts. So what's happening Like? Is resolution coming? Are you moving through the anger and the bitterness Like what is resolution coming? Are you moving through the anger and the bitterness Like what is happening now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess the latest example was, you know, a couple days ago. We're kind of having a conflict and my body was telling me I can't do this right now. I need to get to work. You know, um, I was about to walk out the door and then, you know, my brain starts telling me no, what, what have you learned? What tools have you been really trying to? You know, keep at the forefront of my mind, and avoiding isn't one of them, you know. So I turned back around, went back into what I was feeling, you know that fear, anxious and uncomfortable feeling and we ended up having a good conversation. You know it was a. We were able to connect emotionally. I feel like we both didn't leave with resentment. It's allowed me to actually be a better partner, you know, I think for for Heather, just being able to just stand in the fire and talk to her and being
Speaker 2:more open and um be catching myself when I'm being like, when I'm getting defensive, you know, and just trying to like change my, my, uh, my mood, or my, my presence, because and sometimes you know, it helps when Heather does point that out you know, if I'm starting to maybe sound defensive, you know, and then I'm starting to maybe sound defensive, you know, and then I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, I guess I am starting to, you know, maybe it's coming off my body, posture or whatnot, and it just allows me to kind of read, um, re reset myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, just real quickly. I think there's a gold nugget here that people will connect with. So I want you to take the conflict that happened the other day. You were getting ready to rush off to work, needing to go off to work, and a conflict arises. So can you just give me a quick synopsis of pre um emotional intelligence? What would have happened Like what would you have walked out with and what would you have felt through the day versus what happened? You know what you walked away with the other day and what you felt through the day. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um so before you know, before, um, I kind of increased my emotional intelligence. I would have probably listened to my emotions at the time and I would have probably walked out and went to work and been been bitter. Um, you know it, it would have definitely ruined the rest of my day just having those thoughts sit with me. Like you know, we're not getting along again. You know, here's just another example. You know, type thought, instead being able to catch myself in the moment, walking back into the conflict, actually connect and talk about things, that was kind of bugging the both of us. And you know, we didn't leave work with that on our hearts. We didn't leave go to work with being angry at one another and so, yeah, it's a big like turnaround in my mind, you know. Yeah, ended up having a pretty good day after that.
Speaker 2:I mean just knowing that we were able to come back to one another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, powerful that we were able to come back to one another. Yeah, powerful. And Heather, that is a perfect connecting for what it sounds like when you described the mess you were describing that. You know he avoids me, he shuts down. We can't work through conflicts. This is too much for him. And yet what was your experience through this conflict the other day?
Speaker 3:You know, I walked away feeling heard and seen and learning more about Jordan than I knew before as well, because he's opening up, you know, and I think there have been times where he started to, but as he continues, I'm learning more and I'm digesting more and I'm just more empathetic towards all of the times where things maybe haven't panned out the way I wanted them to, of understanding exactly what's been occurring for him in those moments. Yeah, and with that obviously comes a deeper sense of connection, you know, intimacy in that.
Speaker 1:Right, and you know it's easy as a listener to think, okay, well, jordan changed, so now, heather, it's working great, because Heather is now seeing that, okay, my fears aren't true and I can have hope now because he's changing. Is that how it worked?
Speaker 3:Yes and no. I mean he is growing. I want to give him credit for that. However, I need and have been working on really taking responsibility for myself and how, my way of being, how I show up, because he tends, as he mentioned, to avoid so he shuts down. Where I fight, I chase, I go after If there's a conflict, he's shutting down and I'm like, oh no, get back here. We need to talk about this and realizing that I am just intensifying what's happening for him and really noticing what's going on for me and when I'm feeling that fight kick in, that I need to settle down, you know, and be with myself, not self-abandoned in this, because what I'm telling myself in those moments is, you know, oh, he's not here for me, you're alone, and really getting to be with myself in those moments and what I need, rather than outsourcing my sense of peace and okayness on how Jordan shows up in the moment. That's very much still something I'm working on and, in big ways, lots of room for improvement, but I noticed that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And, and what I hear you describing is hope, like I can see how, how do you, how can you articulate, or can you articulate for us? Like how hope, the lack of hope played a part in you needing him to resolve the conflict right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, when I didn't see there was any other possibility for my needs to be met or to be okay, it was completely, you know, codependent upon whether or not he showed up and could be that that person that I thought I needed him to be in that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when, like, he did walk out the other day right Initially he walked out right and so I can imagine because I'm similar to you in that it's got to be resolved right now and that was causing a lot of challenges what did you do in that moment with you, Like how can your needs get met if he walks out?
Speaker 3:you know, if that happens, I mean, I think for a moment I definitely have very human reaction and it shifts into blame and that victim mindset, feeling sorry for myself. But then it offers me the opportunity to do the things that make me feel seen, you know, and just feel my feelings. Okay, I do feel alone, I feel sad, you know, and I, I, I think just whether it's writing in my journal. I didn't use to be much of a journaler, but now I'm getting to sit down and write down what it is. That's, you know, reflect on what's happening, and that's just a way I get to nurture myself and be there, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so powerful. Right, it's like two humans are married and we think that we our spouse should be able to meet our needs at all times. But the truth is is that we must be able to meet our own needs first. To often to it doesn't mean that our spouse at times can't meet our needs in ways that you know. They can be there for us, but we're human and so we're never going to be able to meet each other's needs at all times. And if we don't know how to meet our own needs, when they're not able to meet those needs, they're not able to meet those needs.
Speaker 1:Then it becomes a very blamey and codependent relationship of meeting each other in ways that no human being is going to be able to meet all of our needs at all times. And that's ultimately what I hear both of you are really choosing in. The responsibility is owning you first, and obviously a big part of what we talk about on this podcast is that the relationship we have with ourselves sets the tone for every other relationship that we have. And ultimately, that's what I hear both of you saying is you're growing your relationship with yourself, which is bringing you to be able to show up more fully, more wholly, with each other, without needing the other person to fill a void in you that really only you can fill. Does that resonate for the two of you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very much. So what difference is this making? Like what? Obviously we talked about the conflict the other day and how that happened. What, what is? What would you say overall? Like what is the difference in your marriage now, as, Heather, you have had a 500% increase in hope and, Jordan, you've had a 50% increase in emotional intelligence. What's what's happening?
Speaker 3:For me go ahead yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was going to say I think you know we are so much more aware of kind of in the places we were kind of short or not meeting one another and just being able to communicate that to one another.
Speaker 2:so it becomes more of a clear picture and, like you know, when, when Heather kind of is telling me kind of what's on her mind and what she's kind of missing, it's, um, there's just, uh like a painted more clear picture in my head of how I can show up better and ultimately be the husband that she married six years ago, you know.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Go ahead and and also like working on not beating myself up as much you know inside.
Speaker 1:When. I hear her kind of rejection and abandonment that you couldn't talk about the elephant in the room, you just had to kind of tiptoe around it and that, as you're growing your emotional intelligence and looking at you know, caring and nurturing for yourself, you actually now can talk about the elephant in the room in a way that like, oh yeah, there is that. Okay, let me look at it, let's talk about it. What do we want to do about it and how can we be with it? Is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's exactly it. And you know it's still like um, every day isn't picture perfect and you know every and every conflict we don't handle it in this perfect way. But now we are definitely on this path of. You know we're both moving forward into ultimately what we want out of our marriage and the goals that we had first wanted at the beginning. You know, and just kind of seeing it work out one by one and you know, like we've heard you say, you know there might be one day where you've taken two or three steps forward and you take one back you know, it's kind of really learning to have grace on one another for just being human and individuals, and you know, yeah, yes, the honest, honest reality of growth and how growth happens in our human existence.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Heather, what about you? What would you describe is happening in your marriage, as this growth is occurring for both of you?
Speaker 3:I think it kind of goes back to you know, that these challenges are a gift and that, you know, if we didn't have them, I don't think we would have as much appreciation for the good and the ability to, I guess, being surprised by how it's showing up or, you know, in ways that I didn't expect it. So it's kind of again back to hope and just knowing that there's so much that I don't know I don't know what I don't know and that that can be a really big gift and just being willing to loosen the grips of control and just kind of know that it's going to be okay, not everything is urgent and on fire, and it's okay to relax a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, powerful, yes, yeah, powerful. Who we are as humans, and we're really not that different from each other. The context of our conflicts may look different, but at the heart of them we're still humans with the very similar fears and opposites attract, and so one usually wants to resolve it immediately and the other's like, I think, this is just going to resolve on its own, and there is a balance between those two things. So thank you, guys, so much for your generosity in sharing your story and your growth journey with us.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks, julia, thank you very much.