Hey Julia Woods
Join me, Julia Woods, a couples coach and wife of over 3 decades, as I share some of my client's stories and my own so that you can be encouraged, inspired, and gain new results in your marriage.
Hey Julia Woods
Trying to be Superhuman Killed My Productivity
In this episode of Hey Julia Woods, Laura Perry shares how confronting hidden shame transformed her life, marriage, and business. What she once thought was ADHD turned out to be paralyzing self-judgment rooted in unmet expectations and perfectionism. Her story reveals how healing internal narratives can unlock clarity, connection, and a 10x boost in productivity.
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Welcome to hey Julia Woods podcast. I'm your host, Julia Woods, founder of Beautiful Outcome, a coaching company focused on helping couples learn to see and understand each other, even in the most difficult conversations. On my podcast, I will share with you the real and raw of the messiness and amazingness of marriage. I'll share with you aspects of my relationship and the couples I coach in a way that you can see yourself and find the tools that you need to build the marriage you long for.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to another episode of hey, julia Woods. I am so excited to have a repeat guest with us. Laura Perry is here, and the other day she said something that was quite shocking, and that is that through doing this work, she has become 10 times more productive. So I am excited to have that conversation with her, and if you want to increase your productivity, I think you're going to really enjoy what is to come. So welcome, laura. Thank you for joining me today. Hi, I'm happy to be here. Last time you were on, you were with Tom, your husband, and this time you are here alone, so I'm excited for the conversation that can unfold between the two of us. So, as we get started, I just want to ask you to share. You were talking to me recently about how what was connected to the lack of productivity was what you felt was about not speaking up and the shame that you carried. Can you talk more about each of those individually?
Speaker 3:Yes, let me. Let me write those two down separately, um, just so I can remember. So, just specifically, when it comes to the shame I think, when I think about shame, I think about it being connected to judgment, um, of myself. So what I don't think I realized is that, um, there was this constant judgment and questioning going on in the back of my head of there were these hidden narratives all the time about was I doing this properly? Was this the right thing?
Speaker 3:And what I realized is I was not really ever tuning into what I want or thought was the right thing. I was kind of bouncing that off of something. I was comparing it to. I was comparing this idea of sort of how things should be going or what I was doing to what, really filtering it through the lens of other people. And I'm just judging myself a lot and I had no idea. I really think this was the source of my what my quote unquote diagnosed ADHD, my, my, I mean the liberation and I've experienced from learning to identify that story and really connect to like, what do I want, what is needed for me to get where I want to go, and I get my family where we want to go, get my relationship where we want to go versus what are these other people think about that and it sounds silly, but it took a lot of work to figure out what was hiding in my brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can you give for the listeners. Just to add context. Can you give a specific example?
Speaker 3:Yes, Of what one of these conversations was in the past and what it sounded like in your narrative.
Speaker 3:So I think there was this narrative of, like, what I needed to do as a mom, et cetera, and somehow I have these really unrealistic expectations because I'm a business owner and ultimately I would just freeze. And then I realized like I need to be asking for what I want to achieve, the goals that I need to achieve in my business. So that conversation was you know, an instance would have been a conversation with my husband about hey, I, this is where we are financially, this is where I want my business to go. You know I can't get that done with the time that I have now. Would you be on board, you know, stepping up, picking up the kids more so that I can have that time to work? And you know he was super supportive. But I couldn't, even previously, couldn't even identify that that was a conversation I needed to have because I I just had all these judgments about all the things that I should be able to do with the time constraints that I had.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, and I've walked this journey with you, and so how far back are we talking?
Speaker 3:Well, we've been doing this work for over two years now, so are you asking like when I had the conversation, or yeah, you, recent.
Speaker 2:The having the conversation with Tom has been more recent, right In the last three to six months, would you say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the last six months yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so for that 18 months before that, because I know this was a tension when you first started coaching with me about like know this was a tension when you first started coaching with me about like his business is more important and I feel like he doesn't support me in my business because he prioritizes anything that has to do with his work. Am I remembering that correctly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you are.
Speaker 2:Yep, okay good. So what were the stories you recognize? You were telling yourself that was bringing you to communicate that his business was more important than yours and you kind of saw yourself as a victim and I think you would say that, like I'm stuck, I want to grow my business, but I can't grow my business and make it what I want because his is more important and that sort of stuff. So what were those? Um, what were the conversations that you were choosing around?
Speaker 3:um, not having your voice and the shame Well, I think I I believed that I believed that his business was more important, I believed it should be more important and that I should take a back seat.
Speaker 3:So, like those were the things that I was telling myself that I should be more of like a supporting role and that I should be able to do. I also think I was telling myself things like you should be able to do this all in a very limited timeframe and be superwoman. So I think it was two, it was multiple things, things I think more about, like judgment and expectations I had on myself. And then I think I just benefited from telling myself stories about you know, his work being, I mean, and there's a lot of things that I think are true and in that too, because I mean I think he and I both believe that you know and um, so that's been, I mean, it's been a big shift for us in general. But I just I think it was more convenient to buy into that story than speak up. Yeah, the conflict up until now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we buy into these narratives. So tell me more. We've talked about the judgments of like I should be able to manage all this. I should be super woman, I should be able to accomplish my business within this amount of hours. So can you connect the dots to shame? But obviously shooting on ourself is shaming ourself, but is there more in that for you that's connected to shame?
Speaker 3:Yes, I think I felt I was telling myself I was a failure for not being able to. You know, in my mind there was this like superwoman that could do all these things, that kind of like. The person that pops up on your instagram rail, that's like makes a hundred thousand dollars a month just putting up a few few posts. You know, you buy into this idea of like what you think, how you think it's supposed to go, and then I'm like setting my, I'm setting myself up for failure, but it just reinforced this idea that I'm not. You know, I kept telling myself that I just wasn't good enough, I wasn't capable. Obviously, other people are doing this, so why can't I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that will resonate with a lot of people because I think those are human stories that we tell ourselves without even realizing that we're telling ourselves that. So what was that robbing you of? Like, obviously you weren't getting to grow your business, and I mean it cost me my business at that point.
Speaker 3:I was just so confused and discombobulated I shut. I had to shut everything down. I just had, you know, such little self confidence at that point Because I just spent all this time making myself believe I was, you know, choosing to believe I was a failure. So I lost income. Um, it caused a lot of tension in my marriage because I just didn't trust myself. Um, and I was really defensive because of it, because I didn't trust myself and how did you not trust yourself?
Speaker 3:Create defensiveness in your conversations with Tom. Well, I mean, I was looking for him. If he didn't agree, If I felt I, because I was making the external world like the validator of my internal world, if somebody didn't validate what I was experiencing, then it must not be true, and so then I would like lose it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So like, if you feel like you're failing, if you've decided you're failing and Tom makes a comment about um, what would he make a comment about? That would bring you to feel like he was validating your story, that you're not, that you're failing.
Speaker 3:Um, well, maybe I would say something like I don't have enough time, or and he might, like you do have enough time, or you know he would challenge me, and then I would be like you don't understand, like I don't have enough time, you know, and almost it just created this deeper victim Victimization of like nobody gets it, it I don't have enough time. I mean, I feel like that was a big thing. I grappled with this whole concept of time yeah yeah yeah, he doesn't understand.
Speaker 2:He has it easy. He gets to go away to work while I'm taking care of everything else and yeah, oh my gosh, the the martyr, oh I, yes the.
Speaker 3:That whole narrative too of I have to do all the things, I have to do all the things, and you know and work, and he doesn't have to do any of these things, and that's because I also wasn't asking for any help, um, and I think I just got so much out of that. I wanted, I wanted that I was seeking validation through striving, like checking things off the list, doing yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I want to check in on the. I wasn't asking for help because I think for the listeners that may be a little confusing, because it's like, and in my memory of walking through this with you and Tom, like you were asking for help that you needed, or he you know was needed, for him to show up which would bring you to be right, that see, I can't ask for help, I've got to do it all on my own. Yes, talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think I was asking for productive help, if that makes sense. I think I was asking for help to set him up to fail, I mean. And again, I don't think anyone sit here sits here and like, says that this is all hindsight right, like this is not stuff I was consciously aware of. This is stuff that I'm was deep in the subconscious, that I have brought to the conscious layer and recognize that okay, I would give him tasks that I didn't want to do but I also knew would be hard for him to do.
Speaker 2:Like what.
Speaker 3:Like go deal with this insurance claim, like not his strong suit at all and I would not want to deal with it because I felt like I was dealing with a lot of other things. And then I would make it about him right, like it wasn't about us failing as a team or not even failure, just like how do we get another resource to help with this? But I would make it about his inadequacies, because I felt shame, like in so, so much of our life recently, with us both having, you know, basically being our own bosses. I think it's been about having to just accept where we are, like I mean, I think I'm just noticing the judgments even more, like what, what are you noticing?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think I'm just noticing the judgments even more Like what. What are you noticing?
Speaker 3:I mean like our house. We, you know, we're working with the kids. We haven't always been the best with boundaries, that's been a major shift for us but our house just kind of stays. A little bit messy it just is, and I mean it didn't grow up that way, right. Little bit messy it just is and I mean it didn't grow up that way, right.
Speaker 3:Like I grew up with, like, very, very like our and you know, my mom.
Speaker 3:That's a little bit of a probably a trauma response for her and she'll admit that, um, like her cleanliness was like something that she control, control when she didn't, you know.
Speaker 3:So I grew up in like a museum and so I look around and see my life and, instead of seeing like joy and abundance and like all this love that we have in the house, like I I for a long time just would judge myself and say, well, we've got to hire somebody that we can't afford to clean the house because it's messy, and you know, know, like just reaching and striving for this idea of what it should look like, instead of seeing, like you know, when I have the conversation with myself, it's not, we're not unaware of it, I'm not avoiding anything um, oh, I see it, um, and we're both doing everything we can and that that's just kind of where it falls. At this point we have a seven, a six and a almost three year old and our three year old pulls everything out, and it's just kind of where we are and it does you know. But in the for years it would paralyze me if I saw our house like that, would paralyze me if I saw our house like that.
Speaker 3:I mean sometimes I couldn't even function because it would. The narrative of like you are such a failure was so strong yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't physically move in our house, and then I would be yelling I, I felt bad about myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I had a similar breakthrough in regards to that, where I just um, I didn't like the version of myself that was constantly, um, I would call it nitpicking, nitpicking my kids nitpicking my husband, like, pick this up, pick that up. That's gotta be straightened, you know. And as I sat with it and I thought what is that? And I realized for me, I had a fear that at some point my mom was going to see my house mess and I was living out of my, my judgment of myself as a little girl as to what would happen when she found things that were a mess.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:I was like do I, do I need to keep living with that judgment? Like if she shows up and has a problem with it, that's on her. The question is do I have a problem with it? Do I not like the way my house is? And I realized that there were. I was over obsessing about things that I didn't really feel that obsessive about, but as long as I lived in the judgment of what she would say if she happened to pop in which never happened. But right, yeah, so she would and I would be in trouble and feel that shame. And so it was so freeing when I realized I didn't need to live through with my mother's voice in my head about my house anymore. I could do it the way I wanted to do it. And, man, it changed. It was a game changer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, I feel the same way and like I came from a very type A background and like Tom comes from a very type B background and, uh, I'm honestly very grateful for that to this day. I mean, he, we, you know we could both improve on always on I could be a little more, less type A and he could probably be a little more, but it's really grounded me because he can really kind of zoom in on and he gets frustrated by it too. Sometimes we're human but just like what's more important than just like being here with our kids right now. You know, and it doesn't have to be the reason that like the wheels are not falling off because our house is messy and one day you know it's not gonna be yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what is? What is the opportunity with my three-year-old, to, who loves pulling things out, to be like, hey, if you pull it out, we get it, you get to clean it up. And, yes, as they learn that all of a sudden they become aids in keeping it, you know, organized and less cluttery. And yeah, it's an ongoing process and for me, I, as long as I was living through the voice of my mother, I couldn't see my three-year-old. I wasn't asking my three-year-old to do three-year-old appropriate chores because it wasn't going to be done the way my mother would want it done. But when I'm like, wait, this is what am I here. What am I aiming at as a mother? I'm aiming at love, I'm aiming at teaching, I'm aiming at growing. So what does it look like? If you know, it takes a little while of continuing to walk this out with them to get to the point where it is done.
Speaker 3:Well, that's how it looks something I think I really have also struggled with and realized like they these kids don't come out of the womb just knowing and and it's a, it's a, it's truly like an evolution, and it's not. They're not gonna do it right the first time and it might take a hundred times before they're going to figure it out. But it's my job to keep reiterating it and I think again, a lot of that goes back to shame and perfectionism of thinking like wait, if I was told to do this right, like I probably would have done this right or expect, been expected to do this right right away. Yeah, and so like allowing my kids to sort of like fumble through that process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, cause it's, it's how it works. We learn by by trial and error. We learn by um, yeah, it's, it's a very um. It's something I get to keep owning with my children and keep choosing to receive their forgiveness of me, but I taught them a lot of um shame around household responsibilities, just like that's not right. You got to do it over. You've got to do it the way I would do it. Just like that's not right. You got to do it over. You've got to do it the way I would do it. And, man, the reality is is what are we here for? We're here serving each other. We're here loving each other and thank you for serving me in that way. And you know, can we talk about what? You see, that you recognize what worked about what you did, what didn't work about what you did, what's wanted and needed and letting them grow into okay. There's greater possibilities of a way to do this than the way I. You know, I just did it and right, that's. That's the best we get in life is learning.
Speaker 3:It's so true, and even just yesterday, I'm noticing myself, I'm, I'm, I'm thankful, I'm thankful for, for acting. Actually, I, I believe, I mean, I believe they really promote a lot of this independent thinking. But he saw my seven-year-old solving my problems all the time and I'm so thankful. We needed eggs to Easter eggs for a hunt, and I had just taken them to church and he said, well, we'll just take mine that I just collected, and I mean my brain wasn't even going there, so they really can add a lot of value.
Speaker 2:Acton is a school that your kids go to. And so, yeah, acton is really about teaching a responsibility, mindset and the hero's journey from the time that they're little. So what does it look like now, as you own your voice? And well, first, what does it mean to own your voice in your words?
Speaker 3:voice. And well, first, what does it mean to own your voice? In your words, it means, I think, step one is being okay with what I want.
Speaker 2:First of all establishing what I want and then asking for what I want. Okay, Okay, good, and what does? How do you interrupt the shame?
Speaker 3:Well, if I'm feeling shut down or it's more about looking at what's actually happening Sometimes I can't always interrupt the shame. It's been a been a practice. Sometimes I still go to shame, but I'll just look at my experiencing anxiety and my experiencing fear. Like, what am I feeling in my body? How does that feel?
Speaker 3:Do I feel like I'm in a flow. If I'm not in a flow, you know, it kind of just starts with a check in of like, yeah, what's, how am I, what am I experiencing right now? If I'm experiencing any of those things that I mentioned, if I don't feel happy and in a flow, I just kind of know there's probably something to peel back there. And I might even ask Tom, and I mean he's been such a resource for me and I'll just say, like what's going on here? And he'll say, well, you're just, you're feeling shame around this thing, and so that's been really helpful because I don't want to feel it. But you know, you say this a lot that we're own, we're really good at deceiving ourselves, and sometimes I think the shame just doesn't. I don't want to identify it, I guess, and so he can help me. But then there's other times where I can just I can see, okay, I'm in shame here and what is what? Am I believing? I believing?
Speaker 2:yeah, what does shame sound like for you?
Speaker 3:um, like you did this wrong, this isn't good enough. Why would you do it like this? You can't get it together. You're never going to be successful. Uh, you're a.
Speaker 2:You're not a good, you're a bad mom yeah yeah yeah, it's that superhuman, it's that sense that we should be superhuman. Right rather than the true, honest shame is a gift. Shame is gift. Shame is not a negative thing. It becomes negative when we let it, when we live in it, in an in. It's an impaired state where it takes us to an inadequate identity, like we are inadequate, or a toxic shame where there's something bad, broken or wrong with me or it or them. But the gift of shame is that it leads us to the honest, the honest reality of our own humility, the honest reality of our own humanness. That is very humbling. We need others, we need help, we need guidance. We need support. Others, we need help, we need guidance, we need support.
Speaker 2:And when we don't like to admit that, when we are focused on, on I'm supposed to be, the be all, end all to every thing that's happening, you know, with my children and in my marriage and all these in my business, then we start feeling like there's a problem because we can't do what someone else's Instagram highlight reel looks like I'm supposed to be able to do, and so then we lead into that inadequacy and that toxic shame. And the opportunity is when we notice it. Then we can choose the humility to be like. Oh, I'm not meant to have all the answers, I'm not meant to be superhuman. This is a growth opportunity. What is it that I want and need? Yes, anything, you would add to that.
Speaker 3:No, it's just it's. It's so powerful and I mean it's almost like there was just 10,000 staticky channels playing in my brain all the time until. But it was really mostly shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, you and I have talked about this before. I had a best shame was my best friend. It was what I grew up learning to go to when I would get in trouble is I would just shame myself as though I was a problem, and that's why I got in trouble, when, in reality, most of what I got in trouble for was just simply being human and an opportunity to grow and learn that I needed to be guided into it into.
Speaker 3:So yes, yeah, absolutely, and so I mean it's just wild, when you can. When I came back working, I couldn't even believe my level of productivity, and I work with one on one clients and there was things and messages that I would receive that would have just sent me into a frenzy received that would have just sent me into a frenzy and I could just read it and move on.
Speaker 2:And it wouldn't. I mean, it's just, it didn't hook you, no, anything to hook into. When you're living in the truth of who you are, when you're living in the honesty of who you are and using your voice, then all of a sudden that's just another person being another person and I get to decide how I want to be with it.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and I can try it on and decide if there's anything I want to take away from it. But I can also see that I am doing the best that I can. And you know, like I think that there was, you know, a lot of times there were just isn't a lot of shame and there just isn't a lot of shame, and and if there is shame, I can recognize it and back off, yeah, and, and wait to respond until I've processed what I'm experiencing or what I'm feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's catch people up. So you felt like you were failing and and you just could not produce. You didn't? There wasn't enough time in the day, based on the stories that you were living out of in your head, and so you paused the business and you decided look, I want to focus first and foremost on being a mom right now. And then what happened? Where? Where are you at now? What, what shifted for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I came back, I got booked out almost within eight weeks with my one on one practice, and I mean this that would have been basically all I could have done previously and I'll launch a community that I'm actively like showing up for and I'm keeping commitments to myself. And also, okay, if things get have to get. You know, like before, if I would have had a standing meeting on my calendar and I had to reschedule it, that's the shame would take over. And now I just see like I'm a human, I'm a mom, I'm a mom. I'm gonna have some conflicts. I'm just gonna have to renegotiate this with people and it's okay. Like it doesn't have to be this life or death situation about how people perceive me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And so what's happening with your, as you are juggling home and merit kids and marriage and business, what's happening?
Speaker 3:marriage and business.
Speaker 3:What's happening and that's I'm keeping up, I don't even it's.
Speaker 3:I never thought I'd be able to function at this level, to be able to attend all of my kids, things to be on the same page with my husband, with you know, most things, um, we're more on the same page than we've ever been and it's just, I mean, it's wild. And to think that it was all, it was always there. I wish it was just getting crowded out by these stories, the shame, and we're even, tom and I, are even working through like just so much about how we see our well, what's needed to maintain a healthy marriage and do we need to spend money on this and do we need to do this? And just, you know, owning our part more in terms of things that are bothering us, like whether it's finances or, yeah, take, when you take the shame out of it and there's no need to be like right, it's just a human, then I feel so much more receptive to how do we get our life to where we want it to be. This is a team effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, when we choose the healthy side of shame, when we live in humility, then all of a sudden I need my spouse and I'm not giving them tasks that are just what I don't want and what I know they actually can't do. Instead, there's a humility that comes, that allows a collaboration, and you begin to see how your strengths and weaknesses fit together in a really powerful way and you start letting yourself need each other, rather than thinking I've got to hide myself from you because I got to be superhuman and I got to be perfect.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Instead it's like hey, I'm a human and I'm going to mess things up and I don't know what I'm doing here, and can we partner in working through possibilities together? It's a game changer.
Speaker 3:It's a game changer. It really, I mean it truly is. It's been life-changing. And would you say that you see it a lot where if a spouse is blaming someone else, it's generally because they're like looping on shame, Is that?
Speaker 2:It could be shame. There's a lot of reasons that we blame our spouse. It's automatic in our DNA. It's the first thing we want to do, and so it could be self-pity. It could be excuses. You know, the benefits I get are I don't need to show up for myself, like there's a lot of benefits. Shame is one of the benefits that we get.
Speaker 3:I mean it was just so big for me. I just was curious if that was like a trend that you saw. But it was definitely, I think, the main primary reason that I blamed Tom, because I think if I peeled it back, even up another layer, it was come. It's like I wanted him to fail so I could be right Really about my own unworthiness.
Speaker 2:How so.
Speaker 3:And like how would him be wrong? It's like a reason to be upset and leave before someone leaves me.
Speaker 2:Ah, yeah, there we go, right, yeah, let me keep making you fail to where this relationship doesn't work, and I get to be right that I'm not worthy of love.
Speaker 3:Yep exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a common thing that we're up to in our marriages and we don't.
Speaker 3:We don't realize it consciously For sure, and we fall. I mean, we fall back, we're, we don't have this perfected but we are trying.
Speaker 2:Never will, never will Exactly Perfection. So just can you highlight just a little bit on the 10 times more productive. So how, what do you think is what does it look like this? 10 times more productive, that is a significant amount that many people would pay a lot of money to get 10 times more productive. So what does that mean? Like, how did that begin to happen?
Speaker 3:Uh, let me say, hopefully I can explain this, I will do my best. But when I shut my business down, I mean, my daughter was at home and I literally could not. I couldn't, even I could not function in my business, and it's because I had a lot of hard conversations I needed to have. I think I was just stuck in shame. I didn't want to have the conversation. So then I was delaying and then things were piling up, and so I think a big piece of it is like I identify what I want and need and I do it, and I don't ruminate on it, I don't sit on it, I don't fear it because of how it might make me look, and so I just send the email, I just set the meeting, I send the message. Or I'm okay with saying I can't get to this today, but I can get to this to you by the end of the week. And, oh, send the message. Or I'm okay with saying I can't get to this today, but I can get to this to you by the end of the week. And oh, by the way, maybe this isn't what we agreed to. This is what we agreed to and I, you know, or or hey, I broke this commitment and I apologize. I'm busy, but I'll get it to you in 48 hours or it just I stopped fearing doing the thing I no longer avoided.
Speaker 3:I wasn't frozen anymore so I could just go and move through all the things without I mean really just being bogged down by that shame which just froze me. So and again, I think it was also conversation. It was. There were some hard conversations I had to have, with my husband too, and but once we got on board and became it was more of like that team effort, I might I might say like, hey, I committed to myself and we talked about this. I want to put out an Instagram reel every day for 30 days. You know I was super busy. This thing came up with the kids, like, can I go take 10 minutes now and do that, whereas before I couldn't have that conversation? And so, or I was afraid to have that conversation because I would think that whatever he said, I don't know, I would just use that as a reason that I was a bad person or wrong or something. So it just allowed me to just really work efficiently and just get tasks knocked off and just go and trust like where I was going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, that self-doubt, that shame, that tells us that we're messing things up. Man, it just delays, it makes everything take that much longer.
Speaker 3:It really does and it did, it did. And I mean, I honestly can't even believe the person I am today. I can't believe how many years I turned 40 in March and I cannot believe how many years I lived that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is powerful and obviously you're asking, humbly, you're asking for help from Tom and he's able to show up in that and amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has. It's truly been amazing. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Who would have thought that shifting the mindset and working on your relationship with yourself could allow you to actually create the love that you long for and offer yourself to the world in a way that's loving the world through the job that you do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny because I think that idea or concept gets floated out there along a lot, but this is the only work that we've ever done that's actually moved that needle for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know it was very transformative for me. Everything else that I had tried in self-help or whatever, was behavior modification, but nothing actually got to the root and produced lasting change.
Speaker 3:Same. That's exactly how we felt, and it's just was worth its weight and goal and changed our lives dramatically both of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it is an honor to sojourn, so be a sojourner with you on this journey of creating the life that we long for. So thank you so much for sharing your story of hope and possibility with people, and I am so grateful for you and the inspiration that you are as you keep creating what you long for oh, thank you, we would not be here without you.
Speaker 3:You have been a lifeline for us and we are forever grateful and indebted to you.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much, Laura, and thank the rest of you for joining us today.