Hey Julia Woods
Join me, Julia Woods, a couples coach and wife of over 3 decades, as I share some of my client's stories and my own so that you can be encouraged, inspired, and gain new results in your marriage.
Hey Julia Woods
I wish I had learned this from the beginning
In this podcast, Rick and Kim share their powerful 18-year journey through addiction, infidelity, and the transformation of their marriage. Through love, forgiveness, and tools gained from a pivotal marriage retreat, they rebuilt trust and connection, proving that even the toughest challenges can lead to profound growth. Their story is a testament to the power of personal accountability and effective communication in creating a thriving relationship.
💥💥Everything you need to grow the marriage you long for is waiting for you in the Marriage Growth Community:
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💥💥Everything you need to grow the marriage you long for is waiting for you in the Marriage Growth Community:
https://beautifuloutcome.com/marriage-growth-community
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FAC...
Welcome to hey, julia Woods podcast. I'm your host, julia Woods, founder of Beautiful Outcome, a coaching company focused on helping couples learn to see and understand each other, even in the most difficult conversations. On my podcast, I will share with you the real and raw of the messiness and amazingness of marriage. I'll share with you aspects of my relationship and the couples I coach in a way that you can see yourself and find the tools that you need to build the marriage you long for. Welcome everybody. I am so excited for you to get to meet Rick and Kim. I got the pleasure of meeting Rick and Kim a couple years ago at when they attended Breakthrough for the first time, and then they've come back another year or two. This is your. You're going into your third year of Breakthrough, right?
Speaker 2:Next year will be three.
Julia:Yeah, and now I get the honor of coaching them, and so, rick and Kim, you'll relate to them. They have been together 18 years, married 11 and have two little ones, four and a half and two. So they're in it. Both of them have very busy lives and busy careers and they're working to grow their marriage in the midst of it. So welcome, rick and Kim, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:We're happy to be here. Thanks, Julia.
Julia:Yes, all right. So, guys, we're going to dive right in and we're going to help Right. So, guys, we're going to dive right in and we're going to help break the myth that marriages are, all you know, rainbows and unicorns and talk about the reality of the real challenges that marriage offers us for our grope. So I'd love to hear both of you share your own experience of what, for you personally, has been the hardest year or the hardest sorry, the hardest season in the 18 years you've been together or the 11 years you've been married. What has been the hardest season for each of you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'll jump in.
Speaker 3:Um, I think I guess a little bit of backstory.
Speaker 3:I have kind of an addictive personality and was kind of numbing myself with various addictions and keeping a lot of secrets and lies from Kim and she didn't know anything that was going on.
Speaker 3:But the cost to our marriage was that we were kind of drifting apart and we were great roommates but pretty terrible at being married to each other and those kind of addictions kind of came to a head with infidelity and I was working really hard to destroy our marriage and relationship. And then all of that kind of came out over the course of a year, year and a half or so, um, and then I guess kind of working in the kind of the, the aftermath of of all of that and uh, and us trying to figure out if, if our marriage and our relationship was going to survive or not, um, I think that would probably be that was definitely our most difficult season and that's, I think, when we met you at, breakthrough was maybe six months after seven or eight months after that and we definitely didn't know how things were going to end up or where things were going to go. Yeah, it was tough. Yeah, how things were going to end up or where things were going to go.
Julia:Yeah, it was tough. Yeah, Rick, will you speak specifically for you, like what was one? I appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability. I think that's going to be really helpful for people and it's helpful for the context. What was hard for you? Can you describe what, for you, was the hard part? What were you feeling? What were you going through as you were living the lies, living the addictions, and then needing to face the suffering of watching, walking through it with kim as you're telling her the truth of what had been happening? What, what was, what was what was hard for you in that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's interesting. I think before before I told Kim and for everything kind of came out, there was that was. That time was also hard for me because I was kind of like lost and kind of felt a little bit adrift and purposeless and I think it was just kind of the weight of all these lies and just how disconnected I was from everything around me. And so this is going to sound weird, but after, after the revelation revealed everything to Kim, on one hand there was kind of like a weight off my chest and there was some goodness in getting these things out in the open and not having these lies and secrets just had been kind of crushing me, I think, um. But on the other hand, you know, I I didn't know if I was going to be married anymore and I didn't know how.
Speaker 3:You know what we were kind of, what the situation with the kids and having two children and just how all that was going to go, and that Kim had a lot of anger and a lot of hurt, and justifiably.
Speaker 3:And you know, part of the hardness, I think, or the difficulty, was I couldn't, that she had to kind of walk her own journey, um, and I had put her through that journey and put her in this terrible situation, but she kind of was on her own to you know how, where she was going to go with that, and so that was hard because I had made this terrible mess of things but I also didn't have the power to fix it on my own either. Yeah, so it was, I don't know how much. Yeah, I guess we're in a better spot now, but there's still certainly haven't figured it all out, but we're still kind of working through all of that. But yeah, it was, I mean, just totally uncertain about what the future was going to be and just kind of coming face to face with all the the pain and damage and misery that I had caused and brought upon us.
Julia:Yeah, yeah, it's powerful, it's. It's a very common thing that when people, when there's been infidelity, that the spouses are feeling such opposite things, right, because the spouse, the one who's been betrayed, has been in the bondage and the suffering, where the other's been in the denial and the naivety. And so you switch spots and now the one who's betraying feels free, and the one who thought they were free and experiencing this relationship that they now gets burst open as that's not what you were experiencing. So yeah, it's a hard, very hard. So, kim, what has been the hardest season for you in your marriage?
Speaker 2:Along the same lines as Rick um, along the same lines as rick um. It was kind of we were, like he said, drifting and feeling very separate and uncertain when I was pregnant with our first child and then there was an initial um disclosure, I guess would be the way to say it of like addiction and like sexual addiction and things like that, and we kind of worked through that and then it was kind of that the other shoe dropped when I was I mean, this makes Rick sound like a monster but eight months pregnant with our second child, the full disclosure of everything else. So it was kind of which, I think, going through this process we've learned it's kind of common for there to be either small disclosures along the way or like leading up to, and that was kind of like I think that began the hardest season for me. And you met us at, the, like Rick said, about eight months after that, where we were. We were really, I think, at a point that weekend at Breakthrough, where we honestly thought we were going to get divorced, like we thought that was it, um, thankfully it wasn't and we stayed at Breakthrough and it was immensely pivotal in kind of where we are, the fact that we have a marriage and have a life now. So we came back and we'll keep coming back, because it was definitely, just like he said, very confusing. We didn't know the future had seemed so certain before, and now it felt very uncertain and scary and overwhelming. And there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of sadness, but I think me personally, this sadness kind of reaches a point where you can't feel sadness anymore and you just feel very angry. I don't think rage would be overstating it.
Speaker 2:We're in that season where I think we've kind of shifted a little bit, because it doesn't feel like we're uncertain that we're going to have a marriage. Every day doesn't feel uncertain, the future doesn't feel uncertain, but we're still working, um, which I think is why we've also chosen. We've chosen to come back to breakthrough. We've chosen to do the coaching because we've realized that even before, all the disclosure and what we're saying is like the hardest season, because it was that everything wasn't good.
Speaker 2:Um, obviously, you don't go from like a great marriage to, you know, everything blowing up all of a sudden, like there's things along the way and we weren't close in a way we could have been, and we're realizing that there's just like layers of things that we kind of need to peel back and really look at and work on and talk about in order to get to a marriage that we never actually had before, to get to a better place. Yeah, so I think I think that's the season we're in of like growth and discovery and connection and working towards something that's, I think, better than we realized we could have and we definitely didn't have before, even thought everything was like okay. So yeah.
Julia:So I know, as humans, we most connect with felt experiences, right? So I think the the moment'm coming to because you coming to Breakthrough was very much in the midst of all of the chaos and the hardship and all of that. So what brought you to say you know what we're going to? I know there was a scholarship involved because somebody at the last minute decided to donate um a seat and or something like that happened and it um donate to two people, half or something, and so like here you are, you don't know if you're going to be married, like for each of you. What brought you to say, yeah, we're going to travel across the country together and we're going to go sit for two and a half days and go to this marriage retreat? What was going on for each of you that you decided to say yes to that?
Speaker 2:It's interesting. I had seen so Heather and Jake had. They're photographers, so I'm'm a photographer and I'd followed them on Instagram. I mean, I don't know years ago we're both in North Carolina area and I remember seeing something that she had posted and being like, oh, that seems kind of interesting. But it was before. It was before any of this. But I was like, oh, and I kind of remembered it. And then I something came up on Instagram and I was like, oh, and I kind of remembered it. And then I something came up on Instagram and I was like, oh, this is that workshop that I saw. Oh, they're doing a scholarship. Okay, something has to change. We have to do something. Maybe I'll apply for this. And I just did it.
Speaker 2:And then I remember you calling, saying that we had gotten it, and I was immediately like, oh, this was a mistake. Nope, nope, we should do this. And having all the like I don't know, those kind of fears or worries right before you're going to do something that's going to make an impact or is going to change or might, and that feels a little scary. I was like the whole time before we came I was like, nope, we shouldn't do this. No, no, we definitely need to do this. Nope, we're not going to do it. I was just up and out, which kind of made me think it was definitely something we should do, because I was scared of it. So I don't want to speak for you, but I'm pretty sure Rick was just like OK, we'll do it, I'll do it.
Speaker 3:I'll go no-transcript. Yeah, I think so, because I think I think I filled out some of the application or she, like I filled out a portion of it.
Speaker 2:I mentioned it. I mentioned it, but it wasn't like a do you want to do this? I think it was more of a I'm applying for it.
Speaker 3:I mean I think like it was weird because I was in this place where I was like working through some of my own issues and obviously our, because all these things were coming to light, our, our marriage was on a downhill spiral. But personally I was in like a a better place, I think I I wanted to kind of do the work and I wasn't ready to to kind of give up on our, on our marriage. So I mean, she wanted to do this, the breakthrough. I was, I was willing to do it and we had done a different kind of a fair recovery program before then, and so I was. I was ready to kind of put in the work and certainly some days were harder than others and, um, I guess I was kind of stubborn so I wasn't willing to that's a nice way to put it yeah, well it's interesting because, like Rick said we had done I think it is just called a fair recovery.
Speaker 2:It's like I don't know if it's a ministry but it's a program that they do and it was immensely helpful and I would definitely recommend it to anybody who has gone through something like that. It kind of it helped in the initial stages of just kind of like like a triage almost. Just kind of like like a triage almost. But then I think when I looked at at Breakthrough and like what you kind of were doing, it felt like moving beyond triage and moving into like kind of healing, I guess, and and how how you can learn skills to move forward in life better and stronger and more together. So I think I think I personally was ready for a shift away from just the focus on like what had happened and coming to terms with that and coming to grips, because it's a long process. But I think I was ready to start moving forward instead of just like feeling like you're kind of sitting in it a little bit at some point, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was kind of my initial motivation for reaching out for something different yeah well, it's interesting because it's it's like a communications workshop is what Breakthrough is. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I remember thinking like all right communication that seems important, but like I don't know if that's exactly what our relationship needs.
Speaker 3:The root of the issue but you know we look like clearly we were just failing to communicate in meaningful ways with each other and over the course of years, like that's. That wasn't the cause of a lot of our problems. I mean, that wasn't the cause, but it's certainly a large aspect. Yeah, I mean it. It factored in and it was, it was relevant, and so just the breakthrough was a way to like focus on like how how would we gotten here and let our relationship kind of like drift apart, like this, and then also just how can we come together after all this Um and and just communications, obviously key to all of that.
Julia:Yeah, cause the results that we have in our marriage. We got there one conversation at a time. If we're deeply connected, we got there one conversation at a time. If we're deeply disconnected, we got there one conversation at a time. And so, ultimately, breakthrough is a workshop to develop the leadership in each spouse in the marriage. Because if each of you will lead the conversation to something that's life-giving, that's productive, that's connected, you'll lead conversations to connection, which will lead the marriage to connection. And so, yeah, it's called a communication workshop, but what people really get is leadership development in themselves, to be able to lead every conversation in the direction of the marriage they long for. So and that sounds easy, it's not that easy, but it is it is a context for developing yourself as a spouse.
Julia:So, okay, so you guys have come to Breakthrough now two years and you've gained some tools there. And Breakthrough is set up very uniquely in that you break through a specific conversation, gaming one tool at a time, walking you through what it means, how to actually break through, and you're the one doing the work. So it's a very practical, hands-on, immersive experience. And then there's coaching, which comes with coaching calls with me and my course, marriage Thrive, where you're gaining tools as well. So you guys have gained quite a few tools, and what would you say as you keep working with the tools? What do you think is the tool that you would have made the biggest difference for you in this hard season of navigating the drifting and the hiding and the betrayal and the confession and all that was happening? What tool do each of you think you wish you had most had at that time?
Speaker 3:Just one.
Julia:You can say what you'd like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the the victim racket and being able to kind of recognize that and putting that into clear terms of of here's what I'm getting at the expense of these things, and I think I think, with my addictions and all my lies and secrets, the person that I was lying to the most was myself and I was convincing myself of all sorts of things to justify or to validate whatever decisions I was making, the things I was doing, and I think I I guess I was just kind of oblivious to that racket that was going on, those kind of like subconscious decisions, uh, and so the way you kind of lay out the victim racket and you kind of clearly capture like here are the things you're getting here. You know you're getting to be.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You're getting to be right and you know you're getting to be the one who's getting to blame the other person, the one who's yeah, you're getting to blame the other person and, um, and I am, yeah, there's just all those sorts of silly things that make you feel good in the moment, um, and then you're like but here's what it's costing you and just any kind of real long-term relationship, any kind of sense of self and all of that, and, and so I think the way you kind of lay that out and then just kind of be using that me being able to use that kind of mindset and and start to like, look under all these, these rocks and things that I've just taken for granted, and being like am I lying to myself here? Am, am I running a racket just to get something small and cheap that in the moment seems good, and and what is it really costing me? And so I think that's been a big, big part of at least my journey.
Julia:Yeah, you laid that out very well. So it's, it's relational accounting, and we love to live in denial and we, uh, love to, like you know, not look at what we're actually choosing and the law the future is bringing towards us. We live in the moment for, uh, you know, in denial basically, and so denial basically, and so the victim all of us have rackets, which is where we like to pretend that we're up to something good. Right, like often, an affair is well, I'm not getting what I need at home, so I'm going to help out here, I'm going to get my own needs met, and then I'll be less of a burden. Right, that is not an uncommon idea. That goes along with a fair.
Julia:But it's the denial we live in so that we don't have to get honest about what we're actually choosing. And the beauty of it is what actually sets us free and gives us the power to choose. Something new is honesty, and relational accounting, or unpacking the racket, as you mentioned, is what allows us to get super honest about. Here's what I'm up to, here's the momentary comforts I'm settling for and here's the long-term prices I'm paying. Do I want to make that deal? And every time I choose this victim mindset. Where I'm stuck, or there's the they're the problem, or, you know, I can't have what I want until they change.
Speaker 3:We keep settling for these momentary benefits while paying the long-term prices well, and you, you said that example in it and it sounds kind of silly, but they're all kind of that silly like they are in your head, you like, you justify it and it feels like it makes sense. And then if you actually put some scrutiny to it, I mean, god forbid.
Speaker 3:You say it out loud, you realize they're all just kind of absurd yes but if you don't, if you don't do that work and and kind of really get after them and interrogate them, they you just take them for granted, you don't think twice about it.
Julia:Yeah yeah, and that's the purpose of the addiction. The addiction keeps us somewhat in a comatose state, so I don't need to think about it. I just need yeah, and that's the purpose of the addiction. The addiction keeps us somewhat in a comatose state, so I don't need to think about it. I just need to keep doing and run the rat race every day and stay so busy. I'm just doing what I need to do to survive and we're not sitting down and looking honestly at what we're choosing and what future is bringing towards us. And that's the only way we actually create change in our life is to get really honest and look what's the future I want and what direction is this choice taking me? Kim, what, for you, was the tool you most wish you had at that time?
Speaker 2:I found the victim racket really helpful as well. But I mean, rick already touched on that. I would say the other thing is the whole concept of like staying in your backyard. I think maybe it was our first breakthrough. But you said you asked the group how many of you are here because you want me to tell your spouse to change, or something along those lines.
Speaker 2:And like everyone raised their hand and you just kind of realize that, like the concept of self accountability is so integral to a lot of this, where to a lot of this, where staying in your own backyard and taking, I think you said at one point, like even if you had like 1% involved in whatever happened, like claim the 1% and it doesn't mean it's your fault, it doesn't mean it's okay, but like, look at yourself and see what you're contributing and see, kind of like, just manage your own backyard, because that's what's going to bring about change.
Speaker 2:Like the whole personal accountability, looking at your own issues, looking at what you're bringing to the table, looking at what you're not bringing to the table. I thought that was really helpful kind of shift in thinking. Where it isn't like well, it's their fault, they're the ones that need to be fixed. They did this which, like I said, it doesn't mean it's OK whatever somebody does, but it does mean You're also contributing, like it's a marriage, it's a partnership, it's a relationship. Whether good or bad, you're contributing something. So I found that mentality and that reminder very helpful.
Julia:Yeah, yeah, and you guys' tools are really the mirror of each other because we're by nature, the most common thing we do is we go to blame, which is the victim racket. And if we're not blaming, if we're not feeling like a victim stuck in our situation, we're choosing a responsibility mindset. We're looking at ourself and what is my contribution? And, as you said earlier, kim, like your marriage doesn't go from wedded bliss to a confession of an affair. You both contributed as you got it there right. There's suffering going on for both of you and you both contributed to your suffering and the suffering your spouse is going through. And even if your contribution is only 5%, if you'll take 100% responsibility for your contribution to your suffering and to the suffering in the marriage, you can begin to choose something new, because you've got to be able to look at what wasn't working in order to start choosing what will work, and that takes responsibility. As long as I'm blaming, I'm not looking at what I chose that didn't work and what do I need to choose newly to create what I actually want, until we step into the responsibility mindset and look at what's growing in my backyard.
Julia:So, to give the backyard analogy, basically what that is, is I describe a marriage is like a neighborhood that each spouse is their neighbors, with a fenced in backyard, and what's happening in you, your attitudes, your responses, your tones, your reactions that's what's growing in your backyard. And, if you will, what we tend to do is stand at the fence and point into our spouse's backyard telling them what they need to change. But the whole time we're doing that, our back is turned to our backyard and we're not seeing the snakes in our garden and the, the overgrowing weeds and all that's happening there. And so personal responsibility is facing your backyard and, as, as you beautify your backyard, you beautify the marriage, and if both of you will do that, you'll create quite a beautiful marriage. So two of my favorite tools right there that you two have shared, so I'd love for each of you to share. What difference do you think that tool would have made for you in this hard season?
Speaker 2:sorry, um. I think just it's very easy, especially in a situation where you've I don't want to say like you feel like you've been wronged, like something has been, something has happened that has hurt you, like you have been wronged, um, to just really look outward and really only look at that issue and what was done and that person. And I definitely lost myself in that in in conjunction with the victim racket, I think, for a while and, like I said, it fueled a lot of sadness and anger and it just didn't bring about any positive fruit. I guess that that would have been helpful for me to even be able to take a little bit of a step back and maybe look at things. I find it it helps to look at things almost in a more holistic way of like, yes, this was the issue that really set everything off, as far as you know, our marriage in a downward spiral, but, like I said before, it's a culmination of a lot of things right, which I think is not unique to us. So, being able to step back and think, okay, what have I been contributing in, like the environment that could have led, or whatever, not like taking responsibility for his decisions and his actions, but for the environment of our marriage and things.
Speaker 2:Um, I think that would have been beneficial to maybe temper a little bit of what I was feeling and instead of really I think I gave, gave it free reign for a while, um, which I mean, I think that makes sense for a little while, but you know, after a bit it's not helpful, it's not productive. So I think that really would have been helpful and it was, I mean, fortunately for us. It was, I mean, a difficult eight months, but only eight months, until we began learning these tools at Breakthrough. So I think we were able to start making a change and implement them relatively soon after. You know, things kind of hit the fan.
Julia:Yeah, can I share my experience? Yeah, my experience. So that first year, when you guys came to Breakthrough and and there's zero judgment, because I understood, I understood, I felt your suffering. It was so deep and you were, you were very closed off and very hard internally, right, and like I remember standing there with you at Breakthrough and you were wrestling with wait a minute, like he is the a-hole, like I can't think to do with any of that and and me just inviting you to the possibility like what if you were willing to just start looking and considering? And um, I don't remember the specific context, I just remember standing there with you and just aching with you for that, that hard heart which I resonated with. I've had that in my going on before. And then you know, when you left Breakthrough, I didn't know if you guys were going to stay together or not.
Julia:And I make three of us together or not, and, um, to see you come back a year later and to see you come in just smiling and the softness and the radiance of both of you, um, it was mind blowing. The power of personal responsibility. And it wasn't that you were, um, you know, just taking all the responsibility and he got off free. It was like you started working on your heart and that's what you have responsibility for. Is your heart Like I can sit here and keep blaming, but that's going to keep my hard heart, my heart hard, or I can start taking responsibility for my heart and what I feel and what I want. And, man, it just made a significant difference in your whole countenance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm not too surprised thinking back on the difference when we came the first year and when we came this year. I mean, yeah, it's not surprising and it's I mean all not to sound like we're like just plugging it, but I mean breakthrough really was the significant hard left in our marriage that we needed, and not just not just marriage. Like I feel like as people, like individuals, we found that from breakthrough and with coaching, like as we grow as people and become more competent, capable humans and emotionally available and aware as individuals, we're more able and willing to be better partners. So I think that was a really helpful kind of thing. I mean, I enjoy kind of I don't know, not introspection, but really self-evaluation, and I am an optimizer.
Speaker 2:I like things to be right, which I think we probably also touched on. I like things to be right which I think we probably also touched on, Just learning those things that helped me look at myself and no longer be blinded to how I was contributing in a negative way and how I had things I could grow and I could change. I really felt like that was super helpful to me in all aspects of my life, not just, not just our marriage. So yeah, it's nice, nice to know yeah.
Speaker 3:I was like I was thinking about that same breakthrough and that, that conversation that Kim had with you, and it's just interesting what kind of being on the other side of of somebody taking that personal accountability and, um, kim has told me what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it a few times and I, um, and generally I it a few times and I and generally I totally ignore her.
Speaker 3:yeah, probably unusual, but but like I remember that conversation where you were kind of challenging her to to take some accountability and that that like leadership, what you were talking about earlier, like I feel like that kind of certainly called me to to look at my own self and be like, all right, well, if kim was to, you know, be critical of herself and figure out what she needs to do better, like then I I need to do the same and and kind of, if she's going to step up, then I need to be there with her stepping up and, you know, taking care of my myself and my own issues and, um, so, yeah, I think that was just I remember that that conversation certainly was a memorable one and just the, the leadership that comes from that self accountability is is powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting, it's you start to notice that when we're both kind of contributing negatively, like we're like when you're showing, when you're taking the personal accountability, you realize that how you show up can really alter how your partner is willing to show up. Cause I've noticed that with Rick, when he's like showing up in a very gracious way and kind of an open, curious way, it kind of makes me stop and think about how I'm showing up and how I'm receiving what he's saying. You know along those lines. So it can go both ways it can go downhill or it can go uphill.
Speaker 2:So yeah just focusing on yourself can make more of an impact than focusing on, quote, unquote, fixing the other person, which is the opposite of what I thought when we first came.
Julia:Yeah, we sure think that if we could get them to change it all be great. But in a whole lifetime and wind up in divorce court waiting for that to happen because it doesn't actually work, divorce court waiting for that to happen because it doesn't actually work. Um, okay, rick, just real quickly, what difference do you think um the understanding the victim racket would have made for you throughout that um hard season?
Speaker 3:I think I just would have gotten out of my own way quicker and earlier and I would have recognized these habits and actions that I was continuing to do that were not contributing to our relationship and actively working against our our relationship and having connection with Kim and um, and so I think just kind of having those skills then would have just kind of sped the process up a little bit and um, and maybe saved us some some heartache and some of the struggle that that we kind of went through until until I was able to kind of pick up those tools and and really evaluate myself and the things that I was doing and yeah where those were leading yeah.
Julia:so we're talking about how these tools could have made a difference for where you guys were at, and some couples are here just like Breakthrough. Breakthrough is for couples who are newlyweds engaged, thinking about marriage in wedded bliss, in challenging seasons and there as their last ditch effort. As other couples are listening to this and hearing these tools of the victim racket and working in your own backyard, how are you guys applying them now? You're not in the crisis. You're in the normal quote unquote normal day-to-day life of raising two kids and running your careers.
Speaker 3:The daily crisis.
Julia:Exactly. How do they help you now? What's a practical way that you apply these tools now?
Speaker 2:I think, kind of like I mentioned earlier, so many of these tools are applicable in every facet of our lives, asset of our lives.
Speaker 2:I mean, for example, I realized the other day that I had a victim racket going on about being the one who is the primary caregiver of our children, and then you get to like unpack those things and realize all these things you were holding on to.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's. I feel like so many, I feel like so many I'm not sure if this is actually the question you asked, but I feel like there are so many things that at first glance feel unrelated to the state of your marriage and the state of your relationship that are actually fully contributing, because everything we do in our lives is like impacting how we show up, it's impacting how we're thinking about the other person, it's like impacting so many things that being able to apply these tools to elements outside of our direct like, directly outside of our relationship, still has a giant impact and it really impacts our quality of life. I think when we like uncover these things and are able to work through them and then move on to the next thing, because there's always the next thing, but and I think that's part of the lesson, too, is like you're not done, like you're never done.
Speaker 3:There's always like something else, big or small, um, and they're really applicable to kind of everything yeah yeah, I would say, and you don't have to like almost ruin your marriage to start using these things like I wish we had started our relationship with, with these, um, and just like learn how to communicate and and interact with each other and interact with ourselves, like right from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. We, after the first breakthrough rick's youngest brother was about to get married and we were like we need to like share this stuff with them because nobody I mean, we've been married. It was our 10-year anniversary when we came to the first breakthrough and no one had ever sat down and told us anything even close to this about communicating and emotional availability or any of this, and and we're like my gosh, how different could things have been? So, yeah, I totally agree. Hopefully people don't feel like they need to wait until they're on the verge of divorce to start learning these kinds of things.
Julia:Okay, bonus question how are these tools? Are these tools? And if they are, uh, are these tools making a difference and, if so, how? In your sex life?
Speaker 2:well, we don't really have much of a sex life. We have two small children and they're very busy and we are working on. It feels like we're constantly working on something working on building our marriage, working on. It feels like we're constantly working on something working on building our marriage, working on raising our children, working on building our businesses. So I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think you teed up a great conversation for an expert. Oh my God, there you go.
Julia:So what I hear you saying is they're functioning in the day-to-day life and you're wanting to see if they can move in that direction and support you there.
Speaker 2:I think that's a lovely encapsulation of what we did not articulate.
Julia:That's great and I think it's very real and I appreciate the honesty. So you guys, it is. I'm just so grateful. I'm grateful that you said yes to the scholarship and that the donor made that option available and you both said yes and I am just. You guys are literally just the wish. I had a photograph that first year to now. The transformation is on the external, it's visible on the external and it's a living testimony. So I love getting to work with you guys and grateful for how you show up in this work and in love for each other and thank you so much for sharing, coming along, coming on and sharing honestly and vulnerably with others for them to have support. So thank you.
Speaker 2:We appreciate you a lot. I mean, I tell anyone I can that if you saved our marriage and these tools are helpful and I mean I sing your praises so. And Rick was a convert after night one, a breakthrough.
Julia:You guys saved your marriage. I just simply was a guide, giving you the things that I have learned in my own marriage and continuing to learn every day, as I have a passion for love and the beauty of what I think marriage is designed to be. And you guys have the same longings, and that's beautiful when our longings bring us together, and I'm just a little further down the journey than you guys, so Well, we appreciate you and the work that you do is really important and really impactful.
Speaker 2:So we appreciate you and thanks for having us on. Thanks.
Speaker 3:So much guys.
Julia:That's going to do it for this episode of hey, julia Woods. Now I have a quick favor to ask of you If you've ever gotten any value from this podcast and you haven't already, please leave us a five-star rating and a quick review in the app that you're using to listen right now. It just takes a couple seconds, but it really goes a long way in helping us to share even more valuable marriage growth tips and interviews here. This episode shares the power of what can happen when a spouse takes responsibility for who they are, being one conversation at a time, and if you want the marriage that you long for, click that first link in the show notes and this will take you straight to the resource that's going to solve that for you. I can't wait to connect with you inside my membership, where you can get the support you need to grow the marriage you long for 24-7. All right, that's going to do it for the show. My name is Julia Woods. I'll talk to you next time.